Podcast chart #71 on the podcast chart

Paul van Zyl brings South Africa's truth process to Leading

The Goalhanger podcast climbs Apple's Australian chart as Alastair Campbell asks what rebuilding trust requires after deep political division.

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The Rest Is Politics: Leading Story of November 10, 2026Trari Newsroom

Why this story? The podcast "The Rest Is Politics: Leading" rose to #71 on Apple's podcast chart in Australia, from #186 yesterday.

What Can The UK Learn From How South Africa Ended Apartheid? | Paul van Zyl

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5:28Conditional amnesty required individual applications and public disclosure of crimes, alongside testimony from victims.
14:22Van Zyl recalls Tutu insisting that scrutiny of former president Botha should not become humiliation.
29:03Considering Northern Ireland, van Zyl argues that confronting the past cannot simply be avoided.
45:07The UK discussion turns to cross-sector projects tackling water management and environmental infrastructure.
50:29Van Zyl proposes using sports stadiums as social infrastructure hubs outside match days.

Paul van Zyl puts a difficult bargain at the centre of his conversation with Alastair Campbell: South Africa's transition required a way to uncover crimes without granting everyone a blanket pardon.

The interview is the latest episode of The Rest Is Politics: Leading, which has risen from 186th to 71st on Apple's podcast chart in Australia. Made by Goalhanger and hosted by Campbell and Rory Stewart, the show explores leadership through long conversations with politicians, writers and people involved in major public decisions.

Van Zyl served as executive secretary of South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. He explains how conditional amnesty worked: perpetrators had to apply individually and publicly disclose their crimes, while victims could give testimony about what they had endured. Truth was part of the bargain, not something to postpone until politics became easier.

There is also a revealing distinction between scrutiny and humiliation. Van Zyl recalls Archbishop Desmond Tutu insisting that former president P. W. Botha be treated with dignity during questioning. Considering Northern Ireland, van Zyl argues that societies cannot simply choose to leave their past unexamined.

The episode follows Kevin Rudd's discussion of China, America and Taiwan, and Michael Lewis's examination of declining trust in America. Here, the focus shifts from the consequences of broken confidence to the work of rebuilding it. The video includes paid sponsorship segments.

The British application becomes concrete later in the conversation. Through his work with The Conduit, van Zyl describes cross-sector projects addressing water and environmental infrastructure, then proposes using sports stadiums as community hubs on days when there is no match.

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